Friday, 19 June 2015

My third interview

It breaks heart, when you have not saved your post and your phone battery dies down. Let me reiterate the journey of the civil services interview 2015. It’s my third interview with past scores of 200 and 220.

I reached Delhi with my lovely wife on 14 June 15. We reached Uttar-Pradesh Bhawan. The weather was pleasant because of an overnight shower.
She gave me lots of inputs to make my interview better. I concurred. 2 sessions with Sriram Sir.

So, let’s move to the interview day. The fateful 16 June 15. Time post 3.30 pm.
I was number 4 out of 6. We came to know it was Mr. Chattar Singh’s board.
I was wearing black pant, black tie and white shirt.
I enter. I see 1 lady and 4 gentlemen.

I reach and say – “Good afternoon Ma’am and Good Afternoon Sirs”. Chairman seems to be a man of fewer niceties. Says, "Take seat". I manage to whimper a faint "thank you".

C: (reading CV aloud) Jhansi, hobbies squash, watching movies, social work- teaching! You mean social work as teaching?  ... (I nervously nod... Thinking god ... He shouldn't ask about squash... I don't even know who the world champion is)...Computer science... Turns page of the CV... Exclaims!! Oh! You are already in service! IPS.
 Me: yes Sir.

C: What are you doing ... Where are u posted? Still at academy? Which batch?
 Me: Sir, I am from 2012 batch. I had an injury during training so had to undergo through training again. Now, I am undergoing district practical training at Jhansi.

C: (interrupts)... Oh that's your hometown...
 Me: No Sir, it’s my birthplace ... My father is in railways so we live at Itarsi and I am domiciled at mp

C: what are you called ... Asp Jhansi? ... It’s always good to be posted at your birthplace
 Me: (Smile) yes Sir. I am holding Thana charge as of now

C: (interrupts) how many Thanas are there at Jhansi?
Me: (promptly) 29 Sir.

C: what are the registers at your Thana?
Me: Sir, register no.4 i.e. crime register, register no. 8 i.e. village crime notebook, duty register, malkhana register etc. we have other registers as well.

C: what about register no. 10? 10 nambari!
I :( thinking ... Never heard of it! ) (Not sure) History-sheeters. (Anticipating the  next question that he will ask about types of History-Sheeters)

C: yes. what do you do with historysheeters?
Me: Sir, beat constable goes regularly to visit historysheeters. Keeps an eye on their whereabouts.

C: But shouldn't they come to Thana?
Me: (thinking which rule ?) (Mumbling)Sir, generally the beat constable goes.

C: But tell me, what is the rule? Shouldn't they come to Thana or They are not called at Thana because then you will have to serve tea to them?
Me: Yes Sir, they should come to Thana, but sometimes they are out of station. So, the constable has to go. Moreover, police going to their home and knocking on their doors at night creates deterrent effect.

C: Why IAS? You want the best?
Me: From my initial preparation days, I was only looking for IAS...It's my only choice this year sir

C :( interrupts) what are the crimes at your Thana?
Me: Sir, illicit liquor,....

C: (interrupts) brewing or selling?
Me: (hurriedly) Sir, brewing, gambling, ganja, and other crimes as well Sir.... my Thana is bordering MP.

C: Ok. You and I know what police goes through but, in general, perception of police is negative everywhere...so, before you are spoiled ...tell me some new suggestions about how to improve the negative perception of police ...
 Me: Sir, to change the perception of police the changes have to come from - within the police organisation and external stakeholders as well.
Sir, the lower constabulary which constitutes 88% of police, which is the cutting edge and deals with public every day, has to change the behaviour. For that, we need behavioural training.
We need man,material,finance. Supreme Court directives implementation.
We need leadership, For eg. Before also, it was the same Thana but it started doing well under me. The staff is still the same but the Thana changed. So, Sir Leadership is required.
At the external level all stakeholders like - civil society, netas and especially people have to be empowered. The place from where I come, Bundelkhand, the masses are not empowered (I make a sorry face).
 I have installed water cooler and kept candies for anybody who comes to register complaint. People come to complain from 30 kms! They have to feel welcomed. We have to create a shopkeeper-customer kind of relationship.
One day, I got a call at 1 am about an accident. I asked my sipahis to reach the place. They told me from the spot that the accident location is not in our jurisdiction, it's 100m inside border of MP.  But, I asked them to take the people to hospital immediately. We saved two lives. Next day good work was in the newspaper.
I have held gram-chaupals( Chairman nodding) and nukkad nataks. I have gotten so much love from the people and bad guys are counting my days.

C: who is counting your days?
Me: Bad guys are counting my days

C: (interrupting and sarcastically).....And you are counting your days in the service
Me: (nervously) No Sir. I have to report at the academy in July.
(Sheepishly) I am happy with IPS as well.

C: (almost simultaneously) No, there is nothing wrong in wanting the best.
C: Tell me, you want IAS ?
Me.: {puzzled look}

C: You are here, because you want IAS?
Me: (yielding finally) yes Sir

Signals M1 to take over
Old fellow with white moustache and blue shirt
M1: Long winding question.... You talked about police reforms.. Tells the whole police reform story ... Prakash singh judgement ... Its non implementation ...Prakash Singh saying whatever  is implemented is some joke or bandaid( not clear), what you are suggesting is the same!  The implementation is tardy across states ... What about your state?
Me: Sir, Apart from the separation of law and order and investigation in Thana informally ... Not much has been implemented at U.P.

M1: I am asking about police establishment board and police complaint authority etc...
Me: Sir, there is no security of tenure at U.P. Police establishment board and Police complaints authority are not established till now. Recently, civil service board verdict came and that too is not established till now..

M1: Civil services board! That is not for IPS. IPS people fought and now that board is not for IPS people.
Me: Sir, at least for DG it’s going to be...

M1: (interrupts) Police establishment board consisting of 3-4 ex DG will be doing it
M1: U.P. is the only state where Allahabad high court cancelled 900 transfers. It is the only state where reforms have been done!!!
Me: (Thinking whatever he is saying doesn’t seem right ...) Thank you for the information Sir. But Sir, I think we have to remain optimistic. If officers like me and my generation demand reforms in police they will have to come.

M1: (feels relieved and smiled)...
Me: (smile)


M2: Appears to be a gentleman with a coat and smiling ... I  try to keep a smiling face always too.
M2: (looking at my CV )... It takes guts to write the best employee at Lehman brothers!
Me :( smiling)

M2: ok.So tells me why did the crisis happen?
Me: Sir, it primarily happened due to subprime lending

M2: (quizzically seeing me)
Me: Subprime lending is to give loan to someone who can’t afford to repay back. They were ninja no income no jobs loans.
Actually Sir, if we look back, the crisis had its seeds in 1998 LTCM crisis. East Asian crisis, where flight of capital happened. From then on, developing countries esp. china adopted approach of having FX reserve war chest. It was an export led economy. The money they earned, they invested in US govt bonds, as they were the safest. Now US didn’t want to give Chinese high interest rates, so the rates came down. It led to excessively cheap money in the US economy. It led to credit bubble. There was another assumption, like we have it in India,  that property rates are never going to go down. So people, who couldn’t afford loans, were encouraged by banks to buy multiple homes and use them as collateral against the loans. The bubble burst. The housing prices came down. It led to defaults. Moreover, banks had high leverage ratio i.e. assets to equity ratio. Lehman had leverage of 31:1! So 3-4% of price change can wipe out the whole equity. Banks lost money. It had a snowball effect.

M2: That was the business strategy of banks. Wasn’t it the greed that caused the crisis?
Me: Yes Sir. It was primarily the greed which caused the crisis.

M2: why was India shielded from the crisis?
Me: Sir, Recently It was in news that RBI was adjudged the best regulator in the world. (M2 smiles). Indian companies didn’t know much about derivatives, so the exposure was minimum. We are not an export led economy; most of the consumption is domestic. Though Indian stock market came down to level 8000, but economy was shielded.

M2: what is capital convertibility? Do you feel India should do it?
Me: Sir, its free inflow and outflow of the capital. For eg. Free conversion to other currencies, no limits, can invest outside India as well. Sir, I recently read a book by former RBI governor where he said that the changes with respect to capital convertibility should be incremental. To absorb global shocks we need to increase size of our economy. Then only we should do it incrementally. Rupee will be internationalized

M2: China has started AIIB, Do you think India should welcome the initiative?
Me: Sir, Previously we had only world bank and IMF for capital. These two institutions were
having problems of voting rights and president's nationality.For eg. IMF always had European president and World bank an american president. India needs capital for its development for eg. in XII Five year plan,we need 1 trillion $ for infrastructure. So, We should welcome all the sources capital apart from World bank, ADB etc. Moreover, As compared to general nature of funds at World bank, AIIB funds are for specific needs i.e. infrastructure.

 
M2: china invests lot of money outside, shouldn’t India do the same?
Me: Sir, right now our banks are riddled with NPA... non performing assets Sir...we should focus on banking reforms mentioned  in economic survey like more bank licenses, bigger banks , deregulation, differentiation, easier exit, bringing down government ownership etc .China does it mainly in case of natural resources as an input to its economy. We are a two trillion dollar economy today. China is 6 trillion! We need to grow first ... Reach that size ... If we are comfortable then why not Sir? If we also feel the need of natural resources to grow, we should also invest...

M2: (happy)
Me: (smile)

M3: Gentleman with specs on my right. ... Orange pinkish shirt
(He starts asking question and chairman walks to loo ....)

M3: you were talking about capital convertibility, isn't in india there is capital convertibility?
Me: sir, in india since there are restrictions on outward flow of capital, hence no full capital convertibility....
M3: Which one is more preferable- inward or outward?
Me: definitely inward sir.
M3: so what more convertibility u need ? 
Me ( smile)
M3:(smile)
M3: you were talking about banking reforms, could you tell about reforms?
Me: Sir, bank nationalisation....

M3: (interrupts)that was long way back
Me: yes Sir, but that led to bank branches in all remote areas.

M3: could you tell about Tarapore comittee recommendations?
Me :( thinking... Trying to remember ancient notes) Sir the SLR and CRR rates reduction....

M3: (interrupts)but, that is monetary policy...
Me: Sir, but that leads to additional capital with banks for lending, for growth

M3: ok. Is there growth or development? How do we ensure growth with development?
(Chairman comes back)
Me: Sir, again I would like to quote economic survey, which talks about nirvana for economy that is growth along with inclusion. JanDhan, Aadhar and mobile- trinity will lead to reduced leakages and direct benefit transfer. So, whatever growth generates, it can be channelled for inclusion by reducing leakages.

M3: (puzzled)
M3: what do you think? Today in India there is economic crisis or moral crisis?
Me: (puzzled) Sir, there is no economic crisis in India. India is fastest growing economy in the world, growing at 7.5%. Our fiscal deficit and current account deficit is in control. (M3 puzzled). (Seeing his expressions, I say) there was an economic crisis sometimes ago due to policy paralysis which had origins in moral crisis....

M3: (interrupts) No, you didn’t understand ... Do we have economic crisis or moral crisis?
Me :( I take hint) Sir, moral crisis.

M3: (relieved and smiles)
Me: (smile)

M3: ok. Tell me what is ethical policing?
Me: Sir, it’s policing with ethics as its base. For eg. Sir, the incident where my policemen went and said that the accident is out of jurisdiction. We were not bound by law to help them. But based on humanity, the ethics took over. It was ethical policing.
M3 nods.

M4: she is a lady.
M4: (long winding question) Ashish, I have two questions for you. You know the Mahila Thana and the process of mediation which takes a long time. Do you think it’s the right development? Secondly, police is involved in civil disputes eg land... What’s your view?

Me:Mam, Mahila Thana was introduced so that women who used to feel shy telling her problems at Thana are more comfortable telling their problems at Mahila Thana. Women police is more sensitive also. (M4 also saying yes more sensitive).Sensitised police empowered society.

Also at U.P., we have a woman helpline 1090, where women who are facing problems can call. Right now, when girls are having problems, parents ask girls to ignore or they get into criminal justice system which is dilatory. In 1090, there is a female call centre. They receive calls and know the problem of girl. Transfer call to male call centre. They talk to the culprit and their parents, saying that we are from U.P. police. If the culprit does it again, then he is called with   parents and takes oath on Koran, Gita etc. If it's third time then we file fir. Apart from that we regularly send sms to these persons during festivals like holi - congratulations! Hopefully your conduct is good.

 We also need to change the mindset of existing Thanas and make woman welcome. For eg. My Thana , Baruasagar, has biggest adrak mandi in India and only women works from morning to evening. In evening, their husbands take all the money, drink liquor and beat them. So, I cracked down on that problem first.

 As far as, second question regarding civil disputes is concerned, Mam we have Samadhan diwas and Thana diwas at U.P., where DM sir and SSP sir sit together to solve land disputes. At Thana level,  thanedar and lekhpal sits together. Lekhpal goes and solves land dispute, police is only for protection and law n order. But, yes Mam,  it's a truth that police meddles in land disputes. (Feeling sorry)

C: Thank you ashish. Your interview is over.
Me: Thank you Sir. Thank you Sirs. Looking at chairman and then M3.(M3 is happy. Don’t remember the expression on chairman’s face.)
I got up. Pushed chair back to the position. Again said, Thank you sir to the chairman and board one last time (The plain ‘savdhan’ police salute in civvies is now part of my muscle memory!). Opened the door.

Coming out, I am having a good vibe about interview. May be, it was not too much of chest thumping. Hopefully it will be the last.
Journey goes on !












































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